tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post2186819681772679089..comments2024-03-27T03:25:08.267-07:00Comments on Life in the Shoe: The Spiritual WindsDorcashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07050605764466835485noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-82361910096088326062018-01-07T06:18:53.496-08:002018-01-07T06:18:53.496-08:00Dorcas, thanks for your comforting sanity here. Ro...Dorcas, thanks for your comforting sanity here. Rocking chair wisdom to cheer us ordinary "not cool" folks on our way. Arlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06271437379396526716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-44018915932721695182018-01-03T09:29:07.002-08:002018-01-03T09:29:07.002-08:00Interesting. Thank-you :-). One of the things tha...Interesting. Thank-you :-). One of the things that fascinates me is the extent to which different groups differ not only in their answers, but in how they work their answers out. The impression I get is that those principles are sort of generally garnered from scripture, without anyone trying to turn them into a sort of precise, perfect, indisputable formula. The RCs tend to treat everything as a logical problem "if this is the function and point of marital relations, then...", which I personally think works well with some things and not with others. (Admittedly that may be distorted because if you study philosophy with a group naturally logic is the side of their way of thinking you encounter!) Anglicanism has a tendency (which drives me mad) to what I feel is a milk-and-water "this makes life easier so it must be God's will" which is so inconsistant with scripture as to feel pretty much crazy to an Anglican scholar with approximately traditonal views.<br /><br />I think when one comes, as I do, from a social background in which people don't regard caring for children as worthwhile and which pretty much outlaws big families, it's very difficult to understand the different way of thinking. Though part of the reason I'm interested is that (despite a lot of general theological differences between the group I belong to and the Anabaptists) I feel it is more sound. Care for other people and the gift of life and being ought to be more important in the great scheme of things than one's personal ambitions and preferences. The assumption of the secular culture I come from is always that in a large family the parents won't cope and the children will just be neglected. (I don't share this assumption - life is really not that simple). I've not experienced the morning sickness thing myself (I'm not married and have never been pregnant) but I've felt rather contemptously challenged for opposing abortion, let alone artificial contraception, with the implication of it being completely unreasonable to expect woman to put up with things like bad morning sickness. And that seems to come in part as the reaction to a previous social attitude that somehow the pregnant woman was just an object whose health and welfare didn't matter. So I am both startled and impressed by the attitude you have to this, which manages to take both the value and cost of life seriously.<br /><br />It is also interesting that part of what I was taught by the RCs was that while couples should be prudent, they shouldn't try to control their families too rigidly, in a "my dream family" sort of way. I feel the dream family idea is a very negative one for other reasons too, and partly the result of pushing woman out to work regardless of their circumstances (as if one could solve the curse of Eve by laying the curse of Adam on women as well!).CherryTreenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-38279485788557074192018-01-01T11:40:57.674-08:002018-01-01T11:40:57.674-08:00We don't have a specific denominational stand ...We don't have a specific denominational stand on this, and I don't know of any congregations that have a specific requirement for their members. Mostly, it's left to individual couples. However, we are guided by a few basic principles such as:<br />--Children are a gift and blessing from God<br />--large families are good.<br />--caring for children is a valuable occupation.<br />--women are the weaker vessel and men should be considerate of that.<br />--wisdom and discernment and volition are good.<br />--natural is better than artificial.<br />I'm sure lots of couples are like us, sort of playing it by ear, with a certain amount of planning but also an unplanned pregnancy or two which is perfectly ok. Then I really wanted a fifth baby really bad, resulting in a pregnancy which was even more horrible than usual, and Paul said, "We are not doing this again."<br />Then we adopted one child.Dorcashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07050605764466835485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-35510557287379651882017-12-31T15:20:08.737-08:002017-12-31T15:20:08.737-08:00Mennonite youth gravitating toward liturgical chur...Mennonite youth gravitating toward liturgical churches... I wonder why this is becoming the preference over the seeker-driven nondenominational churches. My off-the-cuff suggestion is that the waning of some leader-driven movements, scandals, and personality cults may have pushed disillusioned young people to look for something older than the Anabaptist movement. I would also be interested in hearing more stories of Anabaptist people moving to liturgical traditions. Is it because they wanted to remain faithful but needed space away from Anabaptism? Is it because commercialized worship music has been found wanting? Is it because othering, ostracization or poor implementations of brotherhood? Each story is different. Kennethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12919982742739898098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-69618167126867307942017-12-31T10:31:21.477-08:002017-12-31T10:31:21.477-08:00Where do the Mennonites stand on artificial contra...Where do the Mennonites stand on artificial contraception and natural family planning in general? And what is the reasoning? (If you don't mind me asking). I find this interesting having studied philosophy with RCs (I'm not an RC but a traditional Anglo-Catholic). It seems to me (very imprecisely) that some denominations have accepted it without really thinking about it, while others have gone for a more nuanced approach resulting in quite a lot of different conclusions. But I've never really had the opportunity before to ask anyone of the Anabaptist wing where they stand and why.CherryTreenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-82316008947335364072017-12-27T15:56:35.524-08:002017-12-27T15:56:35.524-08:00The flip side of this is, we shouldn't become ...The flip side of this is, we shouldn't become complacent and so entrenched in our "traditions", that the spirit can't move freely.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-19354801460896733352017-12-21T18:25:34.685-08:002017-12-21T18:25:34.685-08:00Beautiful! And relateable and honest... And do bea...Beautiful! And relateable and honest... And do beanies and messy hair really make me into a cool, liberated, semi-Mennonite, ultra-spiritual, enlightened human bean? Why have I not known this before?!?! ;)Dollyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16505642034046492487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-4723114320045163462017-12-20T19:13:51.972-08:002017-12-20T19:13:51.972-08:00So much I could say in response to this, Dorcas. M...So much I could say in response to this, Dorcas. My roots were conservative Mennonite with strong Charismatic influence in my teen years, well into my late 50's; avid follower of Bill Gothard from his earliest seminars until he got into specifics that turned us off; now involved in music ministry in UMC churches where I hear more scripture every Sunday than I heard in a year in Charismatic circles but also where there is little passion for Jesus. More than ever I believe that a life of genuine love and care for people in all walks of life is the real, true Christianity. But there are times I miss the excitement of being on the cutting edge of things even though experience has made me skeptical. I found a lot of food for thought in a recent message I listened to: 1. In every growing move of God there will be some messes and conflict. 2. Sometimes an unstoppable force can also be an unspeakable mess. 3. History has never seen a revival that isn't messy. 4. Don't shy away from a move of God for fear of the messes.Jean https://www.blogger.com/profile/05093389869089614815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-78268086422140395802017-12-20T19:09:07.598-08:002017-12-20T19:09:07.598-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Jean https://www.blogger.com/profile/05093389869089614815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-39485637670754918062017-12-20T10:15:56.957-08:002017-12-20T10:15:56.957-08:00And now, this...from one of your "non-churche...And now, this...from one of your "non-churched" followers:<br /><br />I was born and raised Catholic...attended Catholic grade school, with the nuns and all that. But there's just...something...about the faith one is raised in that becomes stale and rote after awhile. And in the Catholic Church, there's so much dogma and "theology" in the mix, that I eventually felt it got in the way of my relationship with God, rather than enhancing it. <br /><br />In the eighties, my husband and I got involved in a charismatic church--yeah, with all the prophesying and hand raising and praise-the-Lording and speaking in tongues. Stayed in that sort of church for almost a decade, but eventually, the whole culture began to seem exploitative and emotionally manipulative. And politically far right-wing. No place for an aging hippie. It seemed to me that there must be more (and less) to the Creator-of-all-things than that. <br /><br />I just seems to me that most organized religions want to depict the Almighty as either the big piggy bank in the sky, or as a wrathful, vengeful Spirit that rains plagues and curses upon those who displease It. Or both. My soul does not bear witness to either of those concepts. As a result, I am no longer Catholic, or charismatic, or even Christian. I commune with the Creator through nature. I'll spare you the details...as I feel one's spiritual connection is a unique and private relationship. <br /><br />I have no beefs with followers of Jesus. If that is the form of spiritual connection to the Almighty that my friends are comfortable with, I'm not going to tell them they are wrong or misguided. Our God is so amazing that there are probably as many ways to connect to God as there are souls on Earth. Everyone must connect in a way that works for them. It's when people start telling you that THEIR way is the best way or the only way or the most blessed way that you have to wrap yourself in your cloak of discernment. <br /><br />Of which you seem to be doing a pretty fair job. <br /><br />Thank you for this post. It was enlightening to see that some of the things that made me uncomfortable about church are universal...moreso than I had thought. Lisa :-]https://www.blogger.com/profile/02237889098638895390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-31517358488973747202017-12-19T20:25:06.895-08:002017-12-19T20:25:06.895-08:00Thanks for writing about church, Dorcas. I comfort...Thanks for writing about church, Dorcas. I comfort myself with the fact that God knows what’s going on and how He will use the different winds and movements in church present and history. Just because a movement dies down and/or gets completely sour, doesn’t mean God can’t/didn’t use it. After all, His own Son was left with not a single follower and then killed. “Listen to Scripture and the Still Small Voice.” Amen. Let’s stop making fellow Christians and winds our gods, and let God Almighty reign!—-And what that looks like is where it gets complicated=) “O God, our help in ages past.”Tina Fehrhttp://www.tinafehr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-40835404159851008662017-12-19T16:18:35.972-08:002017-12-19T16:18:35.972-08:00Thanks to all of you for weighing in and for your ...Thanks to all of you for weighing in and for your understanding and reflections. God bless you all. Those of you whom I know personally have encouraged me in following Jesus, and I appreciate it more than I can say.Dorcashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07050605764466835485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-30744688678990131522017-12-19T16:14:16.812-08:002017-12-19T16:14:16.812-08:00"Intellectual fashions can be just as silly a..."Intellectual fashions can be just as silly as clothing fashions, and are often actively dangerous."<br />Good words.Dorcashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07050605764466835485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-35881447932629148942017-12-19T14:32:18.477-08:002017-12-19T14:32:18.477-08:00Love it!Love it!gwen of the ozarkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10715497101755702000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-455556658394527592017-12-19T12:32:38.679-08:002017-12-19T12:32:38.679-08:00Thank you for this, Dorcas. It really does put it ...Thank you for this, Dorcas. It really does put it all in perspective. I am going to cut out that last bullet point and keep it. Lucihttp://www.lucindajmiller.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-13475738853711281062017-12-19T10:24:53.047-08:002017-12-19T10:24:53.047-08:00I loved this post, and badly needed to hear it. Th...I loved this post, and badly needed to hear it. Thank you, Dorcas.ShariZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17792723253256673530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-75973703726574525152017-12-19T09:41:18.103-08:002017-12-19T09:41:18.103-08:00Thanks Dorcas! Both entertaining and enlightening...Thanks Dorcas! Both entertaining and enlightening... and a bit frightening. But mostly it was my most spiritual wind for the day! Plus I thank God your husbands messages are both Solid and True! <br /><br />- a fellow-bumbler <br /><br />Ernest Witmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02460705058951518348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-72740991710271990302017-12-19T08:19:51.271-08:002017-12-19T08:19:51.271-08:00Spot on with your final points.
As with the first...Spot on with your final points. <br />As with the first couple in the garden who chose to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil when they could have partaken of the tree of life , we so quickly focus on and allow our identity to be based on knowledge and our perception of liberty and spirituality. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Lindynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-37995314776440244042017-12-19T08:09:36.373-08:002017-12-19T08:09:36.373-08:00It is very interesting how people are writing abou...It is very interesting how people are writing about church because for the past couple of months I've been wanting to write about church too. I just have so much to say but it's something I feel I need to prayerfully write about. <br /><br />I didn't realize the ATI movement had gotten into the Mennonite circles. I've heard both good and bad things about this organization. I thought that because the Duggar family is involved that it must not be all that bad. That is until I looked closely at their website recently and something just doesn't seem right. You and your husband were wise not to get involved. There is that attraction though of modesty, husband being head of the family, mothers being keepers at home etc, but oh beware.<br /><br />Well again I talked way too much! Dorcas have a blessed day and you have a spammer above by the way. Don't you just love the politeness of them? <br /><br />Reginahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188723188448901080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-53642932868419715122017-12-19T07:32:11.380-08:002017-12-19T07:32:11.380-08:00Thanks, Dorcas. This is so good!Thanks, Dorcas. This is so good!Asher Witmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02042317516374435967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-29308355019717335552017-12-19T05:07:02.926-08:002017-12-19T05:07:02.926-08:00Amen amen amen. Especially the last phrase.Amen amen amen. Especially the last phrase.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16758306399739192363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-24927254410346231292017-12-19T04:27:05.368-08:002017-12-19T04:27:05.368-08:00Refreshing! Thank youRefreshing! Thank youRGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12508997252495722556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-14191021425606361542017-12-19T03:35:59.014-08:002017-12-19T03:35:59.014-08:00Thank you for those honest insights. Thank you for those honest insights. Charhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02606150101403600702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-12787655710411835082017-12-19T02:40:10.178-08:002017-12-19T02:40:10.178-08:00Is anything new under the sun? You put into words ...Is anything new under the sun? You put into words some of my thoughts. I get tired of people trying to analyze everything. Rachelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-34009701442879873622017-12-19T00:25:12.002-08:002017-12-19T00:25:12.002-08:00Dorcas, I'm glad to know your thoughts on the ...Dorcas, I'm glad to know your thoughts on the Gothard saga, and that you had the discernment not to jump on board and follow the crowd. Ruby Isaacnoreply@blogger.com