tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post4567943236989706279..comments2024-03-27T03:25:08.267-07:00Comments on Life in the Shoe: MOP Day 4--On Laws, Conscience, and RespectDorcashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07050605764466835485noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-35072894033538045652015-04-28T13:31:33.718-07:002015-04-28T13:31:33.718-07:00To Anonymous--Your comment, perhaps unintentionall...To Anonymous--Your comment, perhaps unintentionally, brings up an important and relevant point: who should decide if someone else's religious belief or practice is valid and justifiable?<br />You see the situation thus: our preferences regarding alcohol are not supported by the Bible, and we should not use them to justify refusing to serve a brewery. And, apparently, our decisions do not make us the shining lights we ought to be.<br />You have every right to your view and I have no doubt at all we are not yet the shining lights we ought to be, having plenty of issues to deal with and a constant need of grace.<br />However: is it up to you--or any other observer--to make that "call" on our behalf? What qualifies you for that role? What makes you the right person to override and nullify our decision and beliefs? Or to decide for us that our viewpoint isn't valid?<br />I think that among all the opinions and words flying around, this is one of the crucial questions: who gets to determine if someone else's religious beliefs are valid? A judge? A client? A psychiatrist? A random commenter online?<br />I can see why you reach the conclusions you do, you have every right to your perspective, and it is not for me to change your mind.<br />As to what Jesus would do about a cake, or a load of barley, I don't know. I think each of us needs to love Him and follow his voice, and this will not look exactly the same for every Christian. Certainly we would not fault another Christian who reached a different decision regarding alcohol use or supplying barley to Rogue Ale. <br />But this was what we felt in our hearts was the right thing to do, and we are so grateful to the clients who allowed us that freedom of conscience.Dorcashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07050605764466835485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-92020541275752809572015-04-28T12:52:59.011-07:002015-04-28T12:52:59.011-07:00So, after reading this blog post a while ago, I ha...So, after reading this blog post a while ago, I have finally decided to comment. This has really been weighing heavy on my heart... this idea, that because of your faith, you can reserve the right to discriminate against others. Most importantly, I want to point out what I feel is the biggest hypocrisy of Mrs. Smucker's argument... Her position of not wanting to process barley for the beer company because it violated her beliefs on 'imbibing'. While I don't believe that I have read in the Bible that drinking alcohol is forbidden(not to mention that no one asked her or her husband to "imbibe")... I believe (having been raised Mennonite) the getting drunk (I might point out that you can have a cocktail/beer and not be drunk) and 'causing a brother to stumble' arguments are the basis for the Mennonite's dogma that forbids it in their congregations. So... Let me ask you this question... do you think, that by standing firm on this issue, Christians look like 'the shining light on the hill' or do you think that they are driving people away from Christianity (causing a brother to stumble)? What is your mission? To stand on principle? Or bring others to the saving knowledge of JC? (yes, I know the lingo) Please read the Bible and honestly tell me that if Jesus were the one behind the counter, would he turn them away or bake them the best cake ever??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-72197173767608683332015-04-14T10:41:12.466-07:002015-04-14T10:41:12.466-07:00Dorcas, this was presented beautifully! I may refe...Dorcas, this was presented beautifully! I may reference this in the future if ever asked to defend my position.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13636750566743182273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-46312077652256272412015-04-10T00:11:44.137-07:002015-04-10T00:11:44.137-07:00So well written... I appreciate the examples of re...So well written... I appreciate the examples of respect. Sometimes, in relation to Amish people, when outsiders or former Amish show up wearing clothes similar to the Amish, it might look hypocritical, but in reality it is only sign of respect, not hypocrisy. And feeling respected means so much to anybody.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-36633974970293719822015-04-07T15:39:55.612-07:002015-04-07T15:39:55.612-07:00beautifully written and expressed. thank you!beautifully written and expressed. thank you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-6418753589718136212015-04-07T12:44:20.002-07:002015-04-07T12:44:20.002-07:00This blog, this is perfect! If more people would b...This blog, this is perfect! If more people would be gracious like this, if more people would realize that we are different and just be gracious about those differences instead of mean and hateful, this world would be tons better! This post hit me in a personal (good) way - I myself am a Seventh Day Adventist, and if I were visiting and eating dinner at a non-Adventist home, I wouldn't expect a meatless dinner, but I would appreciate it if there was one. :-) And a few of our friends are extremely careful of what their kids eat and watch on TV (more so than we are), so when their kids are over at our house, we make sure we don't serve food that offends or watch shows that offend. <br />As always, I enjoy reading your posts. Thank you for this one! :-)Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01171418045229327677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-88833087298549652072015-04-07T12:36:48.262-07:002015-04-07T12:36:48.262-07:00A head hunter submitted my husband's resume to...A head hunter submitted my husband's resume to Budweiser many years ago and he was called for an interview. He explained that he could not work for their company and they were very gracious. I think of that every time I drive by the plant on the interstate and respect them all the more for the way they responded to my husband.Lanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09380649410508372279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-16668993103987337642015-04-07T10:15:45.837-07:002015-04-07T10:15:45.837-07:00Great article, Dorcas! A Christian friend of my hu...Great article, Dorcas! A Christian friend of my husband and me had an interesting perspective that he shared recently. He is a great photographer and has photographed many weddings, portraits, etc. He said he would have no moral problem taking a gay person's portraits, senior pictures, etc. but would not take the photos of a gay couple's wedding because he believes that event itself is sin. If he were to simply say he would never photograph a gay person, then he'd better be consistent and say he'd never photograph someone who lies, speaks rudely, or is selfish!<br /><br />You always present truth (even difficult ones) in ways that just make so much sense. Now if only the rest of the world had their heads screwed on straight!!Mary Anne from Alaska on My Mindhttp://www.alaskaonmymind.weebly.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-7034250929825730252015-04-07T06:53:26.336-07:002015-04-07T06:53:26.336-07:00Yes, Elisa, go ahead.Yes, Elisa, go ahead.Dorcashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07050605764466835485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-18429206817709884272015-04-07T06:07:30.789-07:002015-04-07T06:07:30.789-07:00Nice job Dorcas is explaining the issue. I'm ...Nice job Dorcas is explaining the issue. I'm thinking of sharing on FB (If I'm up for the pushback.). May I?Elisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00487825000602796734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-398809955684834882015-04-06T22:56:35.976-07:002015-04-06T22:56:35.976-07:00Excellent comment, Fifi.
Hopefully someone will ...Excellent comment, Fifi. <br /><br />Hopefully someone will tell that last comment to all the people who are pushing this abominable agenda. And they are the ones who claim that Christianity is being rammed down THEIR throats. Goodness...The Baritonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-1022494218583707652015-04-06T21:43:12.417-07:002015-04-06T21:43:12.417-07:00Very well written Dorcas,
I am curious about som...Very well written Dorcas, <br />I am curious about something Anonymous said, and would like to clarify the point that Christians do not refuse service to gay people, or any other people group on ground of prejudice but rather they do so on ground of conscience. In other wrods, if a gay couple come into a bakery shop owned by a Christian ordering a birthday cake, the Christian would have no problem serving them, but when they come in ordering a wedding cake with something wirtten on it that violates the Christian's conscience, they may be denied service, not because they are gay but because what they want done violates the Chrsitian conscience. Here is where many people misunderstand the meaning of tolerance. Tolerance in Christianity means to love all mankind and desire the best for our worst enemies. It does not mean to share in their sin.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15340786734206700321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-33072023227811090462015-04-06T18:10:27.654-07:002015-04-06T18:10:27.654-07:00I wasn't really referring to your situation, D...I wasn't really referring to your situation, Dorcas, and am glad you didn't feel hated. It's just that a lot of people who do the same thing your husband did in standing up for what he believes in, are feeling the pressure. It seems okay to call good evil and evil good, but those who call good good and evil evil are discriminating. That's what it seems like to me anyway - like people are trying to silence those who have a moral standard by intimidation and bad publicity. Which is why I'm glad you've shared your thoughts on a better way.Lea Hendersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18025965560443623877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-47650061315782554902015-04-06T16:24:28.480-07:002015-04-06T16:24:28.480-07:00Thanks to all for the comments.
to anonymous--it&#...Thanks to all for the comments.<br />to anonymous--it's true: we discriminated. Thanks to Rogue's kindness, it all worked out. Should this happen again in the future, are the only options available to either go out of business or go against our religious convictions? I'd like to think there are other solutions.<br />And Lea, we did not feel hated by the world in this situation, thankfully. However, we were willing to "obey God rather than man."Dorcashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07050605764466835485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-71690936074317307682015-04-06T15:33:14.883-07:002015-04-06T15:33:14.883-07:00You're quite right, Dorcas. It reminds me of ...You're quite right, Dorcas. It reminds me of how Jesus tells us that if we're of the world, the world will love us. But if we are one of Christ's, the world will hate us. It seems they don't mind what anyone believes except for the truth. Doesn't make any sense, does it? It won't be like this in eternity, though! We must never stop telling the truth, and never give in to intimidation tactics. No matter how hard it gets or what it costs us. It's better to obey God than man. Thank you for your encouraging post. I'm looking forward to MOP!Lea Hendersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18025965560443623877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-38835187668580915962015-04-06T14:48:19.709-07:002015-04-06T14:48:19.709-07:00Well said Stephanie!Well said Stephanie!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-77792257633465103672015-04-06T14:40:49.814-07:002015-04-06T14:40:49.814-07:00Your article is well written and while I respect b...Your article is well written and while I respect both your opinion and your freedom to express it, I stand behind the idea that the denial of services to one group of people while rendering services to all other groups is discrimination. While I don't think that group should seek out targets for lawsuits, please remember that not too long ago, protests and riots changed the way the nation responded to blacks and while not perfect, we have made considerable progress in coexisting in the same neighborhoods and the same lunch counters. There is no reason for people in business to seek out the reasons they should deny services, neither should a potential customer make a scene providing those reasons. People are people and should be served in the same manner and the same type of service the business offers all others. I am glad you got the response you wanted from rogue Ale and you are gracious to mention them kindly. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-40249917923830094372015-04-06T13:17:54.434-07:002015-04-06T13:17:54.434-07:00I think you handled this well. Good job, Dorcas. A...I think you handled this well. Good job, Dorcas. And Happy Spring to you and your merry band. :)Rhonda Schrockhttp://www.rhondaschrock.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-44788476632350605272015-04-06T09:45:34.882-07:002015-04-06T09:45:34.882-07:00Thank you, Dorcas. I appreciated every word and th...Thank you, Dorcas. I appreciated every word and thought of your post.Katiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12479232214556617461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-69587703209177735862015-04-06T07:38:44.749-07:002015-04-06T07:38:44.749-07:00Thanks for presenting such a lovely testimony abou...Thanks for presenting such a lovely testimony about respect to all. I thought it was beautifully expressed. Thank you!TotallyUniquebyDaniellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00392460563249938023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-53905329960606432942015-04-06T06:39:34.399-07:002015-04-06T06:39:34.399-07:00All politicians should read this!All politicians should read this!Connienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-29180212542242425942015-04-06T06:21:25.489-07:002015-04-06T06:21:25.489-07:00The world of politics and controversy is coming to...The world of politics and controversy is coming to us. It is hard to avoid some discussion when some assume you shouldn't be in business (able to feed yourself or family) unless you cater to their worldview and demands. Not that those of faith should fear, but there is some sadness to be felt and maybe a bit of speaking out (with proper respect and kindness) to be done. Thanks for sharing!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-48840803752650660542015-04-06T06:11:39.479-07:002015-04-06T06:11:39.479-07:00I have been a long-time lurker here. This is an un...I have been a long-time lurker here. This is an unusual topic to break my silence on, but I wanted to thank you for braving the controversy. You addressed a matter I have long questioned: Why are those who preach a tolerance-for-all gospel so intolerant when their desires are crossed?Stephanie J. Leinbachhttp://www.stephaniejleinbach.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-72566893281718687292015-04-06T06:04:13.934-07:002015-04-06T06:04:13.934-07:00You have a gift of explaining things with such com...You have a gift of explaining things with such common sense. I truly do not understand how anyone could disagree with you, but hey, what do I know, I'm just a white girl from the sticks who has been told I have no right to an opinion. <br /><br />What a great testament to the quality of people at Rogue! crystalkupperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06659420169932283744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11022879.post-58140902195887006962015-04-06T04:22:35.438-07:002015-04-06T04:22:35.438-07:00Wonderful testimony. It's all about respect:a...Wonderful testimony. It's all about respect:all about "love your neighbour as yourself!" I have really been thinking of this with the latest horror attack here. If I love you, I will respect you, and what you believe. There is so little love in the world, people want their rights. PJMCNealhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09216797590742314994noreply@blogger.com